PROGRESS: Do you think that, over the past three years, we have got the balance between taxing and spending right?
Jim Webb: I don’t think we’ve got the spread of taxation right. As an overall figure maybe, that’s the figure we want. We’ve been accused of tax by stealth and there is a certain amount of proof for that. But I think we could rejig it to make it a bit more acceptable. What people perceive is that they are paying more tax.
Teresa Merrison: There are lot of people in the lower parts of society who are still greatly in need. I work in a charity shop and there are people coming in practically homeless and their straits are dire. More should be done on their behalf.
Deborah Cook: With the majority we’ve had there was room to be a little more radical concerning the upper bands. There was a bit more we could have done.
Paul Fisher: I supported the Government for saying, when we were in Opposition, that we weren’t going to increase direct tax rates. I understood the reasons why because we had to nail the myth that … we were going to cripple everyone with high rates. The proof is we’ve not done that. However, what we didn’t say we were then going to do was start cutting the basic rate of tax. I think that there were many of us in the party who were uncomfortable that we could have put that money towards increased spending. When it comes to the second term, we’ve done the right thing by cutting the lowest rate by introducing the 10p rate … But there are other taxes that are far more regressive, like, for example, VAT, which I think is very regressive, and this whole shifting away from direct tax onto indirect tax, still affects the poorest in society and I think we need to look at that balance … I think we are going to have to stop this myth that you can have excellent public services and low rates of tax …
PROGRESS: Here in Southend West, can we persuade the more affluent voters that there is a need for a change in the balance of tax and spend?
Paul White: No, you’ll never change people who’ve got money to actually part with it.
PROGRESS: Do you think at the next election we should pledge to increase income tax?
PF: Maybe at the next election we say we’re not going to put up the basic rate or lower rate. I don’t know about the higher rate, maybe there’s still a debate to be had about that. But even if we said we weren’t going to increase them, we were just going to freeze them, over time that would increase the yield of tax because of inflation and things, people would actually pay more and move up the bands. But the Tories are always going to undercut us. I just don’t think we should get into that game because we’re never going to beat them on it. I think we can offer a genuine choice between us saying: ‘We’ve got the money and we’re prepared to put it in’ – more than the Liberals ever promised – plus challenge the Tories to match that spending.
JW: You’ve got to sort out how you’re going to get your tax in. If you’re going to go for one specific area, raising the tax band or whatever, come out and say it.
PROGRESS: So, we need to tell the voters more clearly what we really think needs to happen on tax?
TM: Yes. You only get people on board by trying to put forward what you want to tax… and trying to make them understand the reasons you’re doing it, so they’ll feel they’re contributing in a way to other people.
Linda Cook: I think if you were running a business, you’d produce a summary of what you’d actually spent the cash on. I think that’s what the Government has got to start doing and account for every penny.
PROGRESS: Do you think that’s a mechanism for winning support for higher rates of tax?
DC: Being transparent is good. In terms of being upfront and saying: ‘We want to increase tax’, I don’t think that’s ever really a winner. But from conversations I’ve had with people, they are prepared to pay more if they feel it is going into services and they are seeing a return on that.
PROGRESS: On the specific case of younger voters, they’re more aspirational and less willing to pay more money from their income. Can we shift that and make them more positive about what government can achieve?
PF: Yes, I think so, and it’s linked to what we’ve just said about greater transparency… The experience under the Tories was that people wanted lower tax and arguably we got lower direct taxes. But we ended up with services that people now recognise are so poor that we need to put massive investment in. I think now there’s a desire amongst the public to actually get that and if we stop making the case, then people will opt out, producing a two-tier society with, maybe, younger people saying: ‘No, I am going to go private.’ If they want to choose to go private, fine, that’s their choice, but what we shouldn’t do is force people say, for example, in health, to feel they’ve got to go private to get decent healthcare. If we can say… that for every extra increase, it will be earmarked for health, then so be it.
PW: I would go as far as to say, regarding using private [finance], we do have to go down that road so long as we control that one percent more, like John Prescott’s done with the licensing for trains, so that he can revoke the licenses. We’ve got to go down that road because we’ve never tried it, so let’s try it. If it works all well and good. If it doesn’t we have the opportunity to go back… That’s how we’re going to have to raise money to keep taxes low.
PROGRESS: Do you think there’s scope for increasing rates of tax?
Sylvia Groom: I think if it’s purely this amount of tax purchases this amount of service, then that’s perfectly straight forward, people will understand that… I think taxing petrol is one example of how not to do it. I think if you’re going to do it and you’re going to put the money into the NHS, say that’s what you’re going to do, not make it look like a lame excuse because that’s the way it came across.
PF: I think in the end the whole stealth tax thing is maybe going to hit us at the next election… There are still a lot of people very receptive to the fact that we’re not honest and upfront about it. People almost seem to resent it more when it’s done by the back door…
PROGRESS: We used a lot of our resources to pay off the debt. Was that the right course to take?
JW: Once again, if you present it in the right way… if they’d explained it in a family context. I mean, if you had a chance, you’d pay your mortgage off tomorrow because that’s a big debt, the same as the country’s got. People would understand [that].
TM: Obviously, they had to do this before they could even go forward. I think they’ve done a good job in so far as… while that’s hanging over your head, it’s like the sword of Damocles.
DC: The whole national debt thing means nothing to the majority of voters out there, who are experiencing services that are below standard yet are meant to be pleased that we’re paying off the national debt. It’s almost an academic debate that we’re not putting the right way.
PF: The policy is probably the right one long term. The money will be freed up to put in year-on-year to spend on our priorities which, I think, are also people’s priorities. [But there was] a clash of expectations. What we probably should have done earlier on, rather than announce everything as a big reform achievement, is say: ‘Look, guys, actually it’s far worse than we thought, we’ve got to pay off this debt.’ … That’s a difficult argument to have because most people don’t really care that much about economics, let alone paying off the PSBR. Again, it comes back to making the case.
PROGRESS: We’ve set priorities in terms of the health service, sorting out the state education system. What other priorities do you have?
LC: We’ve got to start to appeal to the retired generation. All the emphasis has been on schools, the family and things like that and the older generation can make or break you. They feel left out… Some feel [Labour] doesn’t care about [them].
JW: We’ve got something to retrieve on the actual state pension after the 75p debacle… They should rejig the tax so that people who have taken the trouble to have their own pension, or who are on a low pension, should pay no income tax up to a certain point. If they’re trying to avoid putting up the [state] pension by a lump sum, which they appear to be, then that could be another way around it.
PW: Old people feel they’re second class citizens, not first class citizens.
PROGRESS: What about taxing and spending by local government?
PW: I think the biggest taxation, which is hidden, is local taxation… Each year those taxes increase and you still don’t see anything for the money you’re paying in…We have the highest local taxation across the whole of Europe. I honestly believe a lot of the money that goes in locally, especially in England, is squandered.
LC: I think the Government has to tackle the local government situation. Not in all areas, but in some, because there’s a hell of lot of wastage and inefficiency. Local government in some areas, especially Southend, has got to become more efficient and cost-effective.
PF: I don’t know about value for money. I think local government’s got a bad name, and has had for a long time, and it’s not necessarily our fault… I think given the low levels of participation, we can toy around with electoral systems and play around with encouraging three day voting and Internet voting and so forth. But … people now feel they don’t really do that much … As a member in Castle Point, we are always frustrated that a lot of our money is effectively capped … And people say: ‘we want to improve our parks, the streets or highways’, and there isn’t money to do that, because the funds have been cut. But if that money was there and people were spending it, and people realised that it was a lot of money being spent, then they would, I’m sure, come out and vote.
DC: You need to show that there’s a return upon that. People need to see some positive things being done by their local councils and councillors being much more customer-friendly …
PF: I think people do get fatigued about voting every year, but the reason that they get fatigued is because they don’t really think it matters because it’s a marginal amount of money and it’s marginal powers that a council’s got. If they were spending and responsible for more things and the decision-making process was streamlined, and they actually had to deliver a certain level of outcomes. Councils are not businesses but we should expect them to run efficiently and effectively.