So what happens now? This is not just a question for Britain. It is a question for the European Union also. The total disintegration of the EU is unlikely but there are very real fractures apparent in the EU and, as usual, Germany has to take the tiller and steady the ship.
Negotiations do have to start on British withdrawal but this need not be a total separation. If the EU is to rediscover its sense of unity (never apparent in Britain) then it does have to reform. The key is finding the mechanism to bring the decision-making of the EU closer to the people primarily by devolving power back to the individual countries while finding new ways of determining the wider trans-national issues in a way that can carry support within the continent of Europe.
One of my main arguments for staying in was that Britain has a remarkably successful history inventing new systems of government and law which have enabled our country to retain democracy and stability while all about were losing theirs. We should have given that lead within Europe and it is not impossible that we could still do so. A new structure of governance that moves beyond the traditional outline of federalism and that recognises identity of nation states and regions within them combined with a more global decision-making structure for Europe as a whole is necessary. Difficult – and currently only visible in outline, but it is in my view entirely possible. Our negotiations around such an approach might find a more willing audience in other EU countries then we currently suspect.
While we explore such an option the Labour party really does have to face up to our failure both to lead and to listen to the views of people who we once use to represent and who have now deserted us and show no sign of returning any time soon.
Had the referendum been entirely about the economy we would in my judgement still be a member. Sadly it was also about immigration, and was always likely to be so among our voters. To think we can win them back by arguing for tougher legislation on basic pay and recruitment policies by companies is to miss the real concern of our former voters. Their concern, like it or not, is about a perceived threat to their cultural identity.
I love our multi-ethnic diversity but that does not mean we should ignore the argument about identity. When first, second and third generation immigrants could be heard arguing for Brexit then it is important to recognise that it is not just the white working class who found the level of migration too high in their judgement.
In England the number of children in primary and secondary education who have English as an additional language (not their first) is one in six and eight in eight respectively. The figures for Scotland are far lower and that I believe accounts in large part for a lower level of disaffection in Scotland but this is an area needing more analysis. Does it matter? Yes, because like it or not we have to address that issue. As a party we have relied too much on this middle-class intellectual argument which resonates in London but makes people elsewhere in the country feel even more alienated from the government and the capital.
There is no quick fix to this one but we need to recognise it as a major issue for our former voters if we are then to find new policies that work for those voters and also work for our multicultural society.
Trying to present the problem of the disaffected as being about the ‘cuts’ or employment practices will not work. Nigel Farage gets through to our former voters because he doesn’t focus on cuts and employment practices but on ‘our country’. It is a dangerous argument but it works. We ignore it at our peril.
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Clive Soley is a member of the House of Lords and a former chair of the parliamentary Labour party
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Another brilliant article posing the questions, and telling us which answers are wrong – but not saying what the right answers are. So the concern is about cultural identity and the “level of migration is too high in their judgement”. So if you think the answer is tougher immigration controls why not have the guts to say so – rather than telling people what the answers aren’t. It is not a question on relying on middle class intellectual arguments that resonate in London. London has the highest levels of immigration – its just that people (not the middle classes) don’t find that culturally threatening. They don’t find kids with English as a second language in their schools a problem, or even adverse for education. Party members in other parts of the country (especially where immigration is low, or is white European) still find immigration is the issue – but the white working class feel threatened, even if they almost never see an immigrant, or can only identify them by their accent.. We cannot pander to that irrational fear, any more than we would to such irrational fears about LGBT people or the disabled (fears that are still endemic in our society). The world has changed a lot in a short space of time. For older people there are many irrational fears – but only the vague immigration issue is allowed to be spoken, because it can side-step the underlying fear of the different, and of racism. We, as a Party, put forward economic policies to protect jobs, working conditions and wages to tackle claims that this fear is economic. But the only policy that will satisfy the irrational fears about culture is to offer immigration controls – even though the middle class and socialist members know that is wrong on every level. There is no solution to irrational fears – other than to tell people to get over them – but if we do that we are accused of ignoring immigration. Do we cut foreign students to address these irrational fears – or do we stop recruiting foreign staff for the NHS? Do we stop the flow of low paid migrants working in our meat plants and pizza packing factories, or on the land? If we do we will damage our economy and cause complaints from employers – and many indigenous workers will not take these crappy jobs, with long shifts and on zero hours contracts . We need these migrant workers. In many areas they have stopped school closures, opened new businesses, brought income to declining areas, and (as high-lighted in the recent article about Hull in the Guardian) regenerated the area. Out of sensitivity we don’t tell the white working class to get over themselves – not least because in areas like the West Midlands, Lancashire and Yorkshire the underlying issue is about the second or third generation of Muslim immigrants who are perceived not to have adopted our culture – not the Polish workers who have arrived recently. Clearly the Tories have had scope for cutting non-EU migration, but it hasn’t happened. Unless people want Labour to be tougher on immigration than the Tories, to placate our “culturally concerned” voters the answer is the one that Jeremy Corbyn and Ed Miliband before him have largely adopted. Tackle the economic concerns. Provide money for public services where they are stretched by inflows of workers. Ensure Councils can provide school places without having to rely on academies and free schools. Let council’s build accommodation to rent, raise the Living Wage and ensure companies and gang-masters can’t get around it. Outlaw zero hours contracts (or require contracts that reflect the average actual hours worked). The alternative is what this article won’t spell out – but what it implicitly criticises the leadership for not doing – which is to sharply crack down on immigration from all sources and tarnish our Party as pandering to xenophobia and racism. If I am wrong no doubt Clive will set out what he is actually proposing.
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Cut through all of the diatribe and what you are saying is that under no circumstances must there be any discussion of immigration which, it seems that you are arguing, must be encouraged because to do otherwise is racist and that is the most heinous of crimes.
You answer to the problems that are raised by this in terms of already overstretched facilities is to ” Tackle the economic concerns” Whose concerns? ” Provide money for public services where they are stretched by inflows of workers”. Think about this, if you are capable. You argue, as far as I can see, for unrestricted immigration, permanently and then demand more an more money, for more and more facilities to meet a never ending flow of people who need these facilities.
Your comments about schools and building council houses would be laughable if it weren’t so serious because of the implications that a never ending stream of immigrants, some of whom being amongst the traumatised on the planet fleeing civil war and poverty and needing more attention than others, have an ever expanding range of social services provided for them. Who pays, where are the council houses going? I really would like to know.
I live in a medium sized provincial City in the south of England I have a very good friend who’se Ukrainian a successful business woman also friends from Ghana My Ukrainian friend regarding immigration is saying it’s too many
I live in a small block of flats ,a mix of private and social housing. Some are private for rent
A 2 bedroomed flat for rent in in our block is £215 PW, ,at times we’ve had multiples of people on the minimum wage occupying these 2 bed flats, their has in the past been as many as 9 people in a 2 bed property, that includes a number of children. I kid you not .Another time we even had a whip round for a Polish family who simply couldn’t live on the salary of a painter and decorator with that rent
The wife of this guy used to ask my Ghanian friend to fill the baby’s bath with hot water because they could not afford the electric to heat the water .Wonderful immigration for you
I’m not clever enough to spin the above So to avoid the immigration debate is purely and simply arrogance and cowardice on Lab progresses part
Then you can look at the impact mass economic migration has had on wages.. Again you will not address it ,only with ad hominen attacks via racist ,nationalist, bigot nazi ect ,name calling
Progress you are died in the wool neoliberals, you cannot serve 2 masters it won’t work You support the worst of the capitalist vultures namely the Banking financial sector HTF. can you possibly be on the side of the working class, when you’ve got 10 people chasing minimum wage jobs with no security,it’s true and you can live with that, and even worse the criminal private rental market
FFS Do the decent thing form your own centre left pro EU party. Unite with the LDS ,you will dominate the capital and maybe bolster support for the LDS in their former heartlands
Because where you are at now, is stuck with a leader you despise and a membership you do not understand, or have any empathy with
You can ave Have many fabian society meetings you like about how to connect with former voters, but you might as well be stuck in an echo chamber
it didn’t work in 2015 it won’t in 2020
I live in a large town in the North West, which is largely white, working class and industrial. But there are also many retail and finance based jobs. We have had many Eastern European migrant workers come to take up low paid industrial jobs in the area. In the last decade we have merged two secondary schools into one, and closed 2 primary schools due to low numbers. Despite the sale of much of our council housing single people and couples can relatively easily get a council flat in the less desirable areas of the town. Most migrant workers occupy private rented accommodation – but some longer term migrants have begun to get Council Housing. You can buy a 3 bedroom house for £100k – £150k, and flats or small terraced property for less. Immigration has probably helped hold up these prices – although they have been largely static for years. The undermining of wages is not from competition from migrants, but by big business squeezing their employees in long established industries – opening subsidiary factories with lower wages, ending final salary pensions, demanding greater flexibility from workers. The main issue is that in many of the unskilled and even some skilled jobs immigrant workers are preferred, and hired via agencies, because they are hard working, flexible and less unionised.
Then immigrants should head to the North West .
The main point is Clive Soley doesn’t have the guts to say what he means, and I am sure he never raised these criticisms under Ed Miliband. He wants to criticise the current leadership without being explicit – and without offering alternatives – especially alternatives he knows the majority in the Party would reject. However, the basic point on immigration is that our EU membership requires free movement of labour within the EU. Cameron has rejected crude numerical controls as an option, but has put in place some measures to discourage people from coming unless they have jobs. They admit this has had marginal affect because most immigrants come here to work – and do so. This type of immigration is to a degree self regulating because people come for jobs – and most will leave if there are no jobs. The article in the Guardian on Hull showed that Eastern European workers were regenerating the city, and boosting income to the Council, after years of decline. (Asylum seekers have nothing to do with it – they are a separate issue covered by our international obligations.) We have the ability to control non-EU migration, but even the Tories have allowed higher levels than of people coming from within from the EU. If this is wrong, then people like the author should be explicit about which of these groups he would stop coming into the country. Personally I can’t believe that the Tories (with their 10s of thousands commitment) would be letting in more than they felt were absolutely necessary or beneficial for the economy. So I can’t see the figures changing under any new system. There are already criticisms from Asian restaurant owners that they can’t get skilled and unskilled workers to work in their restaurants, because of current restrictions. Much of the growth in our economy is a result of immigration. The notion that there are never-ending streams of migrants wanting to come here is not born-out by reality – but is the sort of scaremongering UKIP and the Leave campaign promoted in relation to Romania and Turkey . In the longer term these are temporary fluctuations due to economic circumstances – as when British workers went in large numbers to work in Germany in the 1980s. Spain, Italy and Portugal are now amongst the main sources of migrants. Few will be intent upon staying long. As long as the additional resources generated from these workers is directed to the areas of the country actually accommodating them, there should be no issues about access to public services.
I’m really proud that my cross on a ballot paper will contribute to the eventual rescue of our precious public services from the crushing weight of sheer numbers threatening their very existence. The Labour party, which instituted so many of them of these services, should be delighted.
Well, piss off and join UKIP. Problem solved.