Apparently Andrew Adonis is one of the most popular transport secretaries ever, according to transport journalists. His popularity shouldn’t perhaps come as a surprise, given that he recently undertook a tour by train travelling the length and breadth of the country, talking to passengers and staff as he went. As outreach goes, it was incredibly successful. We ask Adonis why other ministers didn’t get out and about like he did, and he gives a characteristically modest reply: ‘Every time I speak to Andy Burnham he is visiting a different hospital. Ed Balls is up and down the country visiting schools and children services departments. We are out and about a lot. I think I’m just lucky that travelling around in a train captures the imagination in a way that going and visiting other institutions doesn’t.’

It is clear that Lord Adonis has approached transport policy with the same zeal he displayed as education minister, where he is credited with creating the concept of academies and trust schools. Did he worry that now he’s moved from education, the Tories have stolen the initiative on education reform? ‘We just opened the 200th academy. That is a phenomenal achievement. That is 200 brand new, secondary schools established in areas where educational standards have been historically low.’ He continues: ‘Look at Hackney, which was a byword for educational disaster 10 years ago. It now has one of the highest performing schools in the country, the Mossbourne Community Academy … and instead of people fighting to get their children out of Hackney for secondary education, people are now fighting to get their children into Hackney.’ ‘So we don’t need to take any lessons from the Tories on radical education reform and setting up new schools.’

Given that shadow education secretary, Michael Gove, said in 1998 that the Tories were ‘on the same page as Andrew Adonis’ regarding their education plans, it looks like the Tories at least are willing to take lessons from Labour. So what’s the difference between the parties? ‘We will invest in the education of the many; the Tories will cut it. Does anybody seriously think that if the Tories had been in for the last 10 years that education spending would have been higher than right now?’

Adonis stresses that he is ‘an ardent public service reformer’ but that he believes that one can only bring about ‘fundamental reform with substantial investments in areas that have been under-resourced in the past. What made possible the introduction of academies and the transformation of standards in our schools was a 10-year programme of investments.’ Labour has pushed ‘radical reform to empower front-line managers, to promote choice and diversity and to significantly increase the supply of good quality provision in both health and education, in traditionally under-privileged areas’. But unlike failed Tory policies such as GP fundholding and grant-maintained schools, the extra investment has prevented the development of a ‘two-tier system’. The fact that ‘some of the reform principles are held in common,’ he suggests, ‘shouldn’t disguise the reality that the systems which have been created are fundamentally different between us and the Tories.’

The transport secretary also has pretty clear dividing lines with the Tories on the big economic question too: ‘Virtually no one, no serious political party in the world, besides the Conservatives, believes that starting to cut now, in the middle of the recession, is a credible policy. Our combination of clear commitment to fiscal discipline after the recession with a determination to maintain the fiscal stimulus during the recession is the right policy for the present time.’ So can Labour win the next election? ‘Of course we can win. It’s going to be tough. And we’re on uncharted territory. Labour’s never come up for a fourth term before. We’re in the middle of a recession. Providing we have the most convincing manifesto, and I believe we will, then we have the basis on which to get re-elected. I’m a great believer of the best arguments winning in politics and we do have the best arguments at the moment. This is not the 1970s where a period of economic downturn is seen as the fault of the Labour government and that we have an unconvincing response to it. On the contrary, pretty much everyone accepts that the downturn has been caused by global factors and factors largely beyond the control of government, and our response has been not only strong, but convincing. Gordon and his response to the financial crisis led the world.’

As you would expect from a former policy guru to Tony Blair, and fellow of Nuffield College Oxford, it is Labour’s future policies which Adonis believes will win the day, saying that the next few months must be dedicated to building a ‘bold forward-looking programme for the fourth term’. He’s certainly taking this seriously in his own portfolio: ‘I’m seeking to put high-speed rail at the centre of the political debate not just as a transport policy, but as a social and economic policy. I believe passionately that high-speed rail could be one of our principal policies for creating a fairer and more united society. It could do as much as any other policy in bridging the north-south divide, in linking together prosperous and less prosperous regions and in cementing the union between England and Scotland.’ Adonis believes his vision fits in with other social democratic governments across Europe: ‘[Felipe] Gonzalez started the high-speed rail programme in Spain and [Francois] Mitterrand gave it its crucial impetus in France and I believe we can do the same here.’

Constitutional reform is another area which Lord Adonis has a track record of supporting, and where he is anxious that ‘we don’t lose our vertical edge’. ‘I think we should be looking seriously at introducing elected mayors across Britain’, he says. ‘Few people would deny that London has been transformed as a result of the Greater London authority and the mayoralty.’ He surprises us by arguing that Ken Livingstone ‘did as much as any other figure in the last 10 years of the Labour government to bring about public service reform and change for the better: the congestion charge, the transformation in London transport and the self-confidence which London has, including the winning of the Olympics. Ken Livingstone was a key figure in all those developments. Why? Because we created the mayoralty, gave him the opportunity to mobilise Londoners and the democratic legitimacy necessary to introduce big reforms like the congestion charge. I believe that if we had elected mayors in other major cities of Britain, they could bring about similar change.’

He recognises that ‘this is a difficult and controversial issue inside the party still’ but if we are to overcome the ‘huge challenge we still face to promote greater inclusion in other major cities and dramatic impetus in tackling some of those big infrastructure issues’, more mayors are the way forward.

So what does Andrew think of Progress’ own reform campaign to introduce primaries in the Labour party? He agrees that we need to be ‘prepared to think quite radically in this area’ and ‘be ready to experiment with methods of selection which engage the wider public. It’s very important we’re not behind the Tories on this.’ Adonis also declares to be ‘keen on citizen’s juries. They clearly have been a constructive way forward at a local and national level in helping to engage the public and also to ensure that decisions better reflect educated public opinion. Anything that seeks to promote genuine participation is to be looked at.’ High speed rail, city mayors, and opening up democratic participation – this is Adonis’ prescription for a fourth term, and it’s a genuinely bold and exciting one.