Being a member of the Labour party can feel a bit like round after round of self-flagellation at the moment. But spare a thought for us Scots. Not for us the luxury of five years for a full rethink and rebuild. The Scottish National Party juggernaut rolls on and the next elections to the Scottish Parliament are just 9 months away. The polls are not pointing to a good result, and, whoever our new Scottish leader is, they must not be swept aside on the 6 May. The rebuilding of Scottish Labour is now a long-term project and they should be given time to complete it.
But just when you thought it could not get any worse, the spectre of a second independence referendum raises its ugly head. It seems inconceivable that the SNP would put this to the people again, so quickly after such a decisive result just last year. But two things make it a real possibility. First, the general election results mean many in the SNP feel they have a fresh mandate for another referendum. Second, they have a huge influx of new members (be careful what you wish for) who joined off the back of the result. People who, many having voted for the first time ever, felt both invigorated by the campaign and bitterly disappointed that they did not get the result they wanted. These new members want a second referendum and they want it now. At the very least, they want to know it is going to happen; some of them are already ripping up their party cards in disgust that it is not getting enough prominence within the party.
Nicola Sturgeon has to juggle the pressures from a new, demanding membership, without looking like a party obsessed with independence above all else, especially when the criticism of the SNP’s running of schools and hospitals is not going anywhere fast. Her immediate priority is winning a majority again next May. Furthermore, she cannot risk losing a second referendum, because that really would be the final nail in the coffin for independence. A third one in quick succession will not wash.
The timing of the Scottish parliament election cycle means that Sturgeon could potentially stand on a platform with no referendum commitment next year, intending to put it in the SNP’s manifesto for the following Holyrood elections, potentially just three years later to avoid a clash with the 2020 general election.
And, there is also a debate to be had about whether they go for a referendum on full independence again, with some people arguing it might be a smart move to ask for permission to negotiate the details with the UK government first, with the final settlement put to the people for approval or rejection.
But what if we do face another referendum in the near future? The Scottish Labour party was in dire straits in the run-up to the last one. We could, potentially be in a better place on some measures, with a reinvigorated staff and fresh leadership. However, with the defeat of all but one of our members of parliament this year, we lost an enormous chunk of our infrastructure, and in large parts of the country, there will simply be noone able or willing to lead a local campaign. Believe me, it was hard enough the first time round.
To stop rows about what role the Scottish Labour party should play in a second referendum the new leader should think hard about putting this question to the membership. I have no doubt that the vast majority of our members want us to campaign against independence, but in a much weaker party, debating this question for the second time round, it will be important to have a settled view, which members feel has been considered carefully and taken democratically.
As one of my former colleagues has said, if the price we paid for keeping the country together last year was wipeout in the general election this year, then it was worth it. But it will be harder second time round. In this context, and looking at the polls and likely outcome next May, the make-up of our regional lists is more important than ever. A bun fight between sitting list and constituency members of the Scottish parliament, and our new constituency candidates will not cut it. Yes, we need to think about who is at the top of the lists to maximise the vote, just as Donald Dewar was top of the Glasgow list in 1999. But, with a heavy heart, the next consideration needs to be, who will be left on the 6 May next year? That team needs to have enough breadth, depth, energy and ideas to fight the next referendum. Getting our list strategy right is going to be one of the first big tests of the new leader. It is absolutely vital that they get it right, otherwise our woes are only going to get worse.
The prospect of a second referendum fills most of us with dread. We did not enjoy it the first time, it was a distraction from fighting the Tories, from making sure the Labour party was in shape to fight the general election. It pitched neighbours and family members against each other and poisoned Scottish political discourse. But the nationalists only have to win once, we have to keep winning again and again to keep our country together and to best serve the people we seek to represent. So we will have to be ready for the fight, if and when it comes, and however tough it seems.
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Gemma Doyle is former member of parliament for West Dunbartonshire. She tweets @gemmacdoyle
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Photo: Progress
“The prospect of a second referendum fills most of us with dread. We did not enjoy it the first time, it was a distraction from fighting the Tories”
Well yes, it’s hard to fight people you’re campaigning to keep in power.
Anyway, there’s no referendum just now, so what’s your excuse for not fighting the Tories now?
“It pitched neighbours and family members against each other and poisoned Scottish political discourse.”
No, it pitched political activists and parties against each other. Ordinary voters made their choice, and then got on with their lives afterwards (and then in May clearly decided the only “poison” that needed eradicating from Scottish politics was that which was coming from the Labour party).
This is just the usual “SNP BAD, Independence BAD” guff. You’ve learned nothing from being so unceremoniously dumped by the electorate from what you assumed was a safe 30-year career when you got selected ahead of the 2010 election. You lost, get over it.
It’s a nice demonstration of exactly why Labour (and anyone who genuinely considers themselves to be ‘of the left’) should oppose nationalism, that you can’t differentiate between standing with political opponents to support unity, and ‘fighting to keep Tories in power’. Completely infantile interpretation of the referendum campaign, typical of Nationalists eager for an ever more simplistic worldview.
Would your definition of “nationalism” extend to British nationalism? Because that’s what the “No” campaign was really all about. The sight of the Labour Party wrapping itself in the Union Jack along with the Tories was a sickening spectacle for most of its supporters in Scotland. The Unionist cabal at the top of Scottish Labour have effectively destroyed the party. That’s not infantile, that’s a fact.
Another paint by numbers Nationalist fallacy. Defending the unity of the UK has nothing to do with ‘British Nationalism’, and those that insist that it is are usually just trying to find easy, simplistic excuses for their support of a backward, insular nationalist cause.
Defending the ‘unity’ of the UK? You’re a bit late for that. The ‘one for all and all for one’ stuff died a long time ago, if it ever really existed (other than during the two World Wars).
It doesn’t really exist in Scotland thought does it.
Its all a fantasy which has taken off because people have nothing more meaningful to believe in.
Of course a supporter of the UK is a British Nationalist. Its a fact. You believe in the United Kingdom then you support British Nationalism. It cannot be more plainly stated.
Looks as though your own “worldview” could possibly benefit from a slight readjustment there. Doubtless it must be comfortable to fall back on denouncing the backward Nats every now and then, but you’re not helping improve your own understanding of either your opposition or the current situation.
So what exactly does “defending the unity of the UK” have to do with, if it’s not British Nationalism? Do you deny that there is such a thing as British Nationalism?
See above.
Cameron, Your confusion over nationalism reminds me off a comment Jim Murphy came away with in the run up to the GE. Jim claimed, with a straight face that ‘he was not a unionist’.
In Jim’s case I think he came to realise belatedly that his own personal appeal was suffering because of his support for British Unionism and association with bed fellows he didn’t really like e.g. The Conservative and Unionist Party and The Orange Order. The latter being especially uncomfortable for Jim, a self proclaimed Irish Nationalist.
My advice to you (its a bit late in Jim’s case) is to make sure your politics can stand up to rationale scrutiny especially when it comes to Scotland.
There is some idea in the Scottish Nationalist camp that ‘pro-Union = British Nationalist.’ There is nothing nationalist in recognising that Scotland is not a whole lot different to England, that any differences between us are insignificant, and only become apparent when deliberately, cynically magnified by nationalists with a remit to divide.
Thinking practically, there is nothing nationalist about recognising and accepting that Scotland literally does not have the sufficient means to be a successful, prosperous independent country (that won’t go down well, but it is pure nationalistic zeal that allows Yes Campaigners to overlook this simple, honest fact.) Nothing nationalist about sharing resources amongst the UK nations where money is required.
It has to be accepted that Scotland does not ‘pay more than it receives’. Quite the opposite. It’s uncomfortable and difficult to accept, but it is another simple fact: Scotland does well out of the Union. Standing up for the union is stating that our commonalities are more important than our differences, and that pooling and sharing of resources benefits all of the composite nations.
There is nothing nationalist about defending the UK, despite the easy ‘You’re a BritNat; That’s worse than a ScotNat’. Sod the Orange Order. There are plenty ways to defend the Union which don’t involve the Orange Order, and to suggest they are invalid because the ‘Orange Order/Tories support the union’ is pathetic and myopic.
There are however, very few if not no cases for independence that don’t rely on manufacturing & promoting grievance, division and resentment – i.e nationalism.
D Cameron Edinburgh 15/09/2014 ” Of course Scotland could be a prosperous independent country,thats not our point ” ????
Oh dear. The too poor, too small and too stupid argument. Can’t be arsed. I’m off to read JCs accusation of war crimes by recent PM.
“Too wee, too poor, too stupid.’
That infamous phrase was coined by an SNP politician with the sole aim of stoking up anger and resentment, as is the SNP modus operandi.
That does not stop it being partially true! Scotland, while maybe not TOO small, it is definitely too poor, and judging by the state of its political discourse, it is increasingly looking too stupid as well. Agreed!
🙂
“Would your definition of “nationalism” extend to British nationalism? Because that’s what the “No” campaign was really all about.”
Absolutely fanciful nonsense. The No campaign barely mentioned britain I think that was part of it’s problem.
The yes campaign was the politics of self interest wrapped in progressive language and so many people were willing to drink that coolade because it appeals to their base desires to see themselves as naturally superior. Its the oldest idea in political history,
Thanks Josh, glad someone has their head screwed on right!
“The No campaign barely mentioned britain I think that was part of it’s problem.”
That’s a joke, aye?
You’ve just turned everything upside down. Weren’t watching closely though were you? Cheeky wee monkey you.
That’s 50% of the population (at a minimum) that you’re calling infantile, you realise?
Well, it’s approx 35% of the electorate to be precise, so nowhere near 50% of the population. But yes, I would go so far as to say that 35% are infantile in their reactions and beliefs. Correct.
Perhaps ‘extremely misguided & naive’ would be a better way of putting it.
Just making sure you were indeed calling the hundreds of thousands of former Labour voters who voted SNP this time “infantile”.
Such attitudes are sure to win them back in no time…
Precisely the above comment merely demonstrates the narrow minded ness of the left. The reason why we haven’t been able to offer much resistance to the juggernaut of nationalism.is because a lot of people on the new left actually think its a good idea.
“This is just the usual “SNP BAD, Independence BAD” guff.”
If Scotland voted for independence not only would it be a huge blow to workers solidarity across an island where people and the interests are essentially the same, it would meaning having ot impose eye watering austerity on Scotland.
Its the poor in Scotland and to some extent England that will suffer at the hands of such self indulgent narcissism and wilful ignorance.
There is no left wing case for independence and the fact that so many people are making it illustrates how vacuous the left has become.
You put it better than I could.
Any “solidarity” that stops at a border is no solidarity at all – hence why trade unions operate across both sides of the Irish border (as will no doubt happen when Scotland eventually becomes independent – in fact Unite is already in the process of giving its Scottish arm more autonomy), and hence why people demonstrated in cities across Scotland in solidarity with the people of Greece recently, despite not even sharing a landmass with them, never mind a border.
Meanwhile, working class people in Scotland are paying a heavy price for remaining in the union, and will continue to do so as long as we remain wedded to what has become permanent right-wing politics in England.
That’s not solidarity, that’s a suicide pact.
True left-wingers in England backed Scottish independence last year, hoping that we would show the way for the rest of these isles, or at the very least ensure that not everyone had to go down with the sinking UK ship. The only self-indulgent narcissism on show was from those who couldn’t see past their own narrow-minded definition of “solidarity”.
Doug that is pure fantasy. No true left winger would align themselves with narrow nationalism, even for what they perceive as short term political advantage.
Indeed. However, what was on offer was civic nationalism, not “narrow nationalism”. The inability of Labour folk to understand this is exactly why they’re in their current predicament.
Take the blinkers off, and try and see why true left-wingers such as Dennis Canavan were on the side of independence, while the UK was defended by imperialists and Blairites.
There is nothing more fallacious than the notion of ‘civic nationalism.’ A clever little rebranding exercise that does nothing to change the fact that at the core, all nationalisms, whatever their branding, come from the same dark place, and will all lead down the same road.
There speaks a man who knows bugger all about the part civic nationalism has played against imperialism throughout the years. At the very least, try reading up on the civic nationalism of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania in the run up to the break-up of the Soviet Union before commenting further.
Still waiting for your refutation, Cybertwat.
“The referendum was a distraction from fighting the Tories” That really made me laugh out loud, You were working with them then and are even today. Wake up the time you could get away with such obfuscation is long gone. Get real!
The reason there was only a 10% margin – within reach of a 5% swing – was the abhorrent and ineffective “No” campaign which lost ground rather than gaining ground, and has kept the referendum this side of the horizon. If Labour adopted a “devo max” position then this would help gain credibility and support instead of acting as a Conservative human shield, and offer an alternative to independence other than a flat “No”. Labour has nothing to lose now in casting Scotland loose, without the convenient Scottish Labour block vote that was wiped out.
The SNP are in a slightly awkward position, balancing expectations of their more Braveheart-minded supporters with the many realists who support the party, but a roadmap to independence would help both them and the wider debate over devolved powers. Flashpoints such as repeal of the Human Rights Act, the continued existence of the House of Lords, austerity measures, the European Union referendum and the Smith Commission/EVEL debate offer plenty of potential reasons to stage another independence referendum, especially when aggregated. I’d rather see a modified Union but wouldn’t lose any sleep over voting Yes (again) if the constitutional status quo was the only option on the table.
“…… the make-up of our regional lists is more important than ever. A bun fight between sitting list and constituency members of the Scottish parliament, and our new constituency candidates will not cut it”. Gemma let me assure you there is not going to be a bun fight. This will be a knife fight. The scheming has already begun to keep the ‘failed 40 ex MPs off the lists. If Labour in Scotland has any sense none of them should get another chance. Scotland would like nothing better than to show Westminster losers what they think of them for a second time. It would be a self inflicted disaster for Labour. The nationalists would love it.
Are the Norwegians “Nationalists” because they want to be run from Oslo (not Stockholm)? Are the Slovaks “Nationalists” because they don’t want to be run from Prague? Are the people of Ireland a bunch of nasty Nats because they broke free from the grip of London rule?
As an English person, I am neutral as to whether Scotland remains part of the UK or not. I think it should be up to the people of Scotland to decide for themselves. If yous want to stay, then that’s great. But if yous would rather be independent, then good luck!
amidst all the hysteria there is one enduring fact. since 1979 there has been no increase in the percentage of the population voting for an independent scotland.the 2014 referendum was a one off.any future referendum, not in my lifetime, should be triple locked.
Ah yes, the infamous 1979 referendum on Scotland becoming independent, which also ended 45% Yes, 55% No. I keep forgetting about that one. As does everyone else, seemingly.
We’re lucky we have such great minds around to keep us correct.
..it was 32.89% in 1979……32.81% in 2014 so pro-independence is going in reverse…a fact which as you say is overlooked by the fevered separatists…..
Oh dear, was I too subtle? I’ll rephrase:
1979 wasn’t a referendum on independence, so there’s been a 45% increase in people voting for independence since 1979.
In addition to that, Ronnie’s arithmetic is bollocks.
In 1979, yes to devolution got 51.6% of a 63.7% turnout (or 32.9% of the total electorate).
In 2014, yes to independence got 44.7% of an 84.6% turnout (or 37.8% of the electorate).
…i checked my figures on a calculator…your figures are voodoo and disenfranchise part of the population….
You need to get a new calculator then, because your figure for the 2014 referendum is wrong.
…worrying……when was there ever a vote where 31.0344% voted for independence?….
More to the point, when was there ever a vote on independence?
Do you genuinely not understand the problem here?
…in that case you have to demonstrate the maths behind your “45% increase”. if that’s what you think then you clearly do not understand either the problem or the arithmetic solution…
Still not getting it, then? Jesus…
Pretty obvious what he means. There has only been one Scottish independence referendum, so there was an increase from 0% support to 45% support.
How you contrive that there was “32.81%” support for independence in 2014 is a mystery, however.
Will Labour allow currency union next referendum?
If you really think that financial union without political union is a recipe for success. Perhaps ask the Greeks about that one before putting your name down.
what a lot of utter crap
I was a labour member for 35 yrs ,,its rubbish like this that cost us dearly ,,,and made up my and many 1000’s of others to leave ,,,if u have learned nothing u are finished ,,, #ABSTAINERS